i'll never let go, ship.

[dollsome]

This got kind of . . . excessive and crazy. When I started off with it, I wanted to have everything all orderly, with a section of Marian analysis and a set of Guy analysis for each scene, but then it just kind of . . . exploded into something not remotely neat or organized. So good luck, pals!



All right. So, I’ve made it through the grieving process. I’ve had one sleepless, tormented night. I’ve gone a whole day feeling nauseous, finding myself inspired to burst into tears by random things like cups of tea and my dog looking at me funny. I’ve contemplated suing Dominic Minghella for emotional damage. I’ve deleted all my Guy/Marian icons in a fit of grief, only to realize that they are far too pretty to be absent from my userpics page and putting up new ones. And now, damn it, I have realized that a little thing like one half of my ship killing the other one sure as hell isn’t going to make me forsake one of my most beloved OTPs of all time.

And then, and only then, did I slip into analysis mode – and realize that, actually, this can be made to work. The thing that ruined me about the finale, more than anything else, was that Guy and Marian’s interaction in it seemed to completely negate every single thing that’s happened between them this season, to take all the tender and genuine moments and say, ‘Hah! Just kidding, suckers!’ The idea that none of the stuff that had made me burst into tears of disbelieving joy, leap around my apartment harassing my very beleaguered roommate with an incoherent and squealy play-by-play of their interaction, and daydream about them during boring-as-all Anthropology lectures had actually been real (er, in the fictional sense) or meant anything? We are talking major betrayed-type feelings here, people. Dominic Minghella & Co. were lucky I was not in the same room with them and wielding a broadsword, is what I’m saying.

But then, as I was lying in bed last night about to fall asleep, I for some reason caught myself contemplating the Guy/Marian stuff in the finale in relation to “A Thing Or Two About Loyalty”, a.k.a. The Episode That Will Always Break My Brain With Its Many Levels of Complexity and Downright Greatness. Episode summary, in brief: Marian recognizes some humanity in Guy (namely, his concern over Lambert) and as a result winds up genuinely trusting him; Guy finds, though, that he cannot bring himself to go against the Sheriff; once she finds this out, Marian is left feeling disappointed in Guy, which quickly transforms into anger – both at Guy for betraying her, and at herself for beginning to trust him.



I think that 2x10 through 2x13 can be viewed as very much the same journey for their relationship as “A Thing Or Two About Loyalty” was, only this time on a much grander scale. We see Guy and Marian connect in a way that’s genuine and compassionate and powerful, only to have them torn apart when Guy is lured back by the Sheriff – as a result, Marian completely closes herself off to him, furious both at his weakness for the Sheriff and that she let herself fall for the idea that he might be capable of being a good man.

Of course, all of this is just ridiculously in-depth fangirly analysis, but I’m definitely going to cling to it anyway, because I need it to live on er, well, because.



In their first scene together in 2x12, they seem to be getting along as well as they were at the end of 2x11 – they exchange smiles, and Guy seems much more relaxed than usual – but it’s all shot to hell pretty quickly. The seeds of what will ultimately cause their relationship to unravel are planted right away here –

From Marian’s Perspective:
-After recent events, where Guy has stood by her side to protect Nottingham against Prince John’s army and saved her despite discovering that she’s been directly thwarting his political cause for years, the information that he’s going to kill the king – a conclusion we learn that she draws immediately – is sort of a slap in the face. It directly contradicts all of the good things he’s done that have been winning her over, the notion that he is truly capable of being redeemed, that he’s found more important things than politics and power.

-The mention of Robin, too, brings up the one obstacle that still stands between Guy and Marian even after 2x11. Marian’s obviously aware that finding out about her relationship with Robin is the one thing that Guy really will not be able to endure, and she keeps it a secret to protect both him and herself.

From Guy’s Perspective:
-His willingness to go and kill the king obviously has a lot to do with the idea that, once he really and truly has power and position, he and Marian will be able to get married and live happily ever after. In spite of everything, he just cannot seem to shake the belief that to truly gain her heart, he has to make something of himself in terms of politics and power first.

-She gives him her word that she won’t do anything reckless or stupid – like, say, kill the Sheriff – while he’s away, an assurance that he won’t have to worry about her.

-Here, too, we see Guy’s suspicions about her relationship with Robin beginning to emerge.


So, then, once Marian tries to kill the Sheriff and gets caught—



Marian:
-Is upset with Guy that he’d go along with trying to kill the king.

-Add to the mix that Guy rather easily and quickly tells the Sheriff that Marian was the Nightwatchman – an action which, in her eyes, immediately counteracts the kind, brave thing he’d done for her.

Guy:
-Has to deal with the fact that Marian expressly went against her promise to him that she wouldn’t do anything – and not only did she not keep it, she did the worst imaginable thing: she tried to kill the Sheriff. Very soon after Guy has risked his standing with the Sheriff, has gone against the man who essentially controls his life, all to save Marian, she goes and makes an attempt to kill the Sheriff. It’s essentially one big “screw you” to Guy’s scheme to protect her from being found out as the Nightwatchman – after the huge sacrifice he made for her, she just goes and sets herself up to get killed by the Sheriff all over again, like Guy’s actions meant nothing to her.




So now on both sides, we’ve got them each feeling equally betrayed by and disappointed in each other. That only worsens on Marian’s side when she finds out that Guy did go to the Holy Land to try to kill the king – apparently, she had genuinely believed it for a long, long time when Guy told her that that wasn’t the case back in 1x13. This only strengthens her view of him as being treasonous and every bit the Sheriff’s man.




I think, too, that when Marian finds out that Robin is “dead” from the Sheriff, it obviously only serves to make her more upset – she’s lost the love of her life, and not only that, but Guy is choosing to stand by this man who is responsible for Robin’s death. All of the redemptive qualities Guy has shown in 2x10 and 2x11 have been all but canceled out right now. The cherry on top is that Guy is doing nothing to help her: he’s allowing her to be chained in a stable and treated appallingly without stepping in to intercede, in spite of how much he apparently ‘loves’ her. By this point, I think everything that’s good in him has really just begun to fade away in Marian’s eyes.




And then, my very favourite scene of the whole episode – Guy comes to her in the stable at night, and they just look at each other before being interrupted by Allan. I just love the resonance of this moment. I’m completely biased, obviously, but I think that we really do feel them connect here, and that both of them seem to silently be asking the other, “Why have you done this to me?” It’s the last moment of true connection that I think we ever really see between them, and I think it’s so fitting that it doesn’t involve any words – at this point, everything they say to each other is a manipulation, a lie, a betrayal, an affirmation that their loyalty doesn’t belong to each other and never can. And so, for this little moment, they’re just quiet.

This is immediately followed up by Guy asking Allan if Marian and Robin are together – and Armitage, of course, just beautifully shows how devastating this idea is to Guy; it isn’t really menacing, even, just desperate and sad. Allan’s answer only serves to strengthen his suspicion. So now we also get to throw in the mix the fact that Guy is beginning to question every single thing that’s ever happened between him and Marian, every moment that has ever given him hope with her.



And then we’ve got Guy’s dream, where Marian says, “I should’ve let you look after me, Guy. I should’ve let you.” I think this really reveals just how betrayed and upset he feels that Marian didn’t just accept his protection after 2x11 – if she had kept her word that she wasn’t going to do anything (because Guy did clearly think he was protecting her with that action), she would be back in the castle while he, the Sheriff, and Allan went to the Holy Land. And in his mind, he would have come home, finally as powerful and accomplished as he’s always felt he needed to be, and they would have gotten married. Instead, Marian had gone against him and gotten herself taken prisoner, and now everything’s a mess.



And now, into 2x13!



I think that by now, Guy and Marian’s relationship is in worse shape than it’s ever been before. Neither of them trust the other, both of them are incredibly disappointed in each other and on completely opposite sides. He hasn’t shown much compassion at all at the fact that she’s being chained in a room as a prisoner, presumably for a somewhat lengthy stretch of time. I think at this point, they’re really just completely lost to each other.



Which makes Marian’s proposal an insult, almost, more than anything. I think that before, there was always something – a spark, an attraction, that inherent tension between them – but here, I think Marian’s just so weary, and although she says all the right words, there’s nothing behind it, and Guy senses that. I think he can also draw the assumption that Robin’s death can be connected to the fact that suddenly she’s saying she’ll marry him willingly. Marian, at this point, has lost everything, and she’s gone into calculating survival mode here – she’s not stirred by him, not anymore. I think it’s interesting to contrast this scene with the one in 2x03 – in both of them, she reaches out, offers herself to him, but the 2x03 scene is so characterized by heat and intimacy and desire, and this one’s completely the opposite, with everything sparse and cold. (Juxtaposing the lighting in both scenes is quite interesting.)



I still have trouble making sense of his declaration that he’ll take her by force. It’s obvious that he doesn’t want her in the same way that he had – he doesn’t want her to love him, he doesn’t want her to see that he’s capable of truly loving her. For all his desperation, he’s never forced her before, because he has always wanted her to be the one to make the choice, so that way he can believe that she cares for him. The man’s proposed to her a number of times throughout the series, but even in the height of his desperation, it’s always been a question. I suppose the one conclusion that I can really draw from that is that he’s finally just given up on her, and he reacts by turning violent and cold: he’s become the Sheriff’s man more than ever. This part reminds me of in 2x01, when Guy asks the Sheriff if he ought to use force if Marian and her father won’t come along quietly, and the Sheriff responds by telling him to use force anyway.

And so Guy really and truly, irrevocably betrays Marian, and it’s like “A Thing or Two About Loyalty” heightened about tenfold. I think that at this point, she just completely lets go of him – loathes him, despises him for having made her feel for him only to turn out like this. Having the Sheriff come and tell her that Guy’s chosen him over her, and rub it in by asking whether she’s disappointed in Guy, really just puts an end to everything she’s ever let herself feel.


Which brings us to the last scene. (dun dun DUNNN.)



I think it’s incredibly fitting the way this is staged, with the king in between them and Guy and Marian on either side. It’s a physical manifestation of the thing that has always stood between them: no matter what, they have always been on opposite sides, their loyalties have always been directly conflicting, and this is the ultimate verification of that – and the thing is, by this point, they’ve lost the shades of grey that have always, always defined their relationship. She genuinely does not think that he’s capable of goodness or love anymore; he
just wants her for the sake of possessing her.



I think that in this scene, Marian’s incredibly similar to the way she was in the scene where she’s down on the floor in 2x11 – there’s that same sense of having lost everything, leading her to finally just abandon manipulation in favour of brutal honesty. I think Guy’s so far gone in her eyes here, and she’s so bitter toward him, and that’s why she laughs during the scene. There’s nothing left between them, no reason to tiptoe around him or manipulate him or even try to spare him from the truth; the man she cared for, the man he might have been, is gone, and she hates who he’s become, and she’s sick of pretending.

Meanwhile, I think that Guy sort of rediscovers his love for her throughout the course of this scene, even if it is in a horrifying way; he’s back in his most fearsome old school season one mode at first, with his threatening “we will be together” – and then, I think Marian’s harshness sort of brings him back. Her saying she loves Robin – again and again, laughing – completely tears down everything that has ever happened between them. Every smile, every touch, every sacrifice he made for her, every single step toward emotion, toward humanity, toward wanting something so much more real and fulfilling than power: she seems to be telling him here that all of that meant nothing, and he cannot handle that reality. So he completely thoughtlessly does what he has to do in order to make her stop.



And the thing is, I think that the second he stabs her, they’re given one last glimpse of each other, in a twisted way. He completely crumples – he’s devastated, he loves her more than anything in the world and he’s destroyed her in a fit of blind passion. The man he’s become throughout the course of this episode – the one who’s cold and methodical, who follows the Sheriff’s orders and cares for nothing except for gaining power and dismisses humanity as weakness – is gone, and here, instead, is Guy, and he’s horrified and he’s sorry and he loves her.

And while it would have been so easy to have her just look at him with shock, or disappointment, or contempt, instead, we get this remarkable expression on Marian’s face as she looks into his eyes the second before she falls. It’s like what he’s done makes her recognize him again, the man instead of the emotionless monster – there’s almost a savage triumph on her face, an “I was right about you all along.”

The irony of it all is sort of sickeningly intense.

But, well, it’s hard to derive any comfort whatsoever from what went down in this episode, but looking at it this way helps for me. I think that this way, it at least gives them a defined sense of tragedy, instead of dismissing every bit of significance from what happened between them throughout this season. Instead of having to just suddenly buy that none of it meant anything, that Marian really was playing him all along and that his love for her never turned selfless, this acknowledges that they did genuinely connect, and that the progress they made was real – it’s just that the worst possible circumstances came along and completely tore them apart. And, well, as long as I’m allowed to hold onto the idea that their scenes in 2x06 and 2x10 and 2x11 were genuine, then I think I’m going to be okay. –ish.

So here’s to Guy/Marian, a ship so friggin’ spectacular that even the most horrific ending imaginable can’t bring them down! <3

Comments

[anythingbutgrey.livejournal.com]

i have to say, i think this is spot on. i still don't forgive guy by understanding his actions, but i don't think you claim that he was right as i've seen some people trying to do, and that's why i like this. excellent analysis, and, again, i think you're totally right. it's really fascinating to read about too. :)

♥

[dollsome.livejournal.com]

There are people who've actually claimed he was right to do it? Eesh! I mean, I don't think for a second that it was remotely okay in the slightest -- "She was so mean to him, she had it coming!" is SERIOUSLY NOT GONNA FLY, on so many levels -- but at the same time, I really don't think he intended to kill her, and he didn't even really realize what it was he was doing until it was too late.

I'm still not really wanting to watch next season -- a show without Lucy is no show at all!! -- but oh man, is Armitage ever going to tear it up with the angst.

Seriously, most traumatizing finale ever.

[three-nails.livejournal.com]

This was AMAZING. I've been so crazy busy with work since I watched the finale, I honestly haven't gotten a chance to properly finish my grieving yet (haven't even begun the picspam yet because I DON'T DARE OPEN UP THAT VIDEO AGAIN to make caps ;__;), so analyzing is soooo far off for me at this point. But you laid everything out so brilliantly and it almost makes sense now... in a way!

[teenwitch77.livejournal.com]

Oh my God, thank you so much for this. The way you've picked every moment apart so logically makes me able to regard this tragedy the way I wanted to in the first place - in a way that does actually make sense in terms of their relationship, instead of seeming so abrupt.

I think that this way, it at least gives them a defined sense of tragedy, instead of dismissing every bit of significance from what happened between them throughout this season

Definitely. Memming this for sure, because maybe I can make myself rewatch the episode with this in mind, and... appreciate it. Or at least acknowledge it and continue to like this ship the way I want to. Really excellent analysis.

[bj-4ever.livejournal.com]

Waouh. You've done an incredible job here.

I am really impress. I like the way you've analyzed these two episodes for Guy&Marian and then for Guy / Marian.

I agree with all you said at 200%.

If you don't mind, I've post a link of this entry into a French Robin Hood Board that I am moderating, because I am pretty sure that will interest a lot of people.

Thank you so much for sharing <3

[snowystingray.livejournal.com]

First off -- yaaaay I love you and I love this post and I love that we can actually still discuss this episode (and this show as a whole) as Guy/Marian shippers without throwing in the towel just yet. Because, dammit, I am determined to pull something meaningful out of all this! So here goes.

I think the parallel to "A Thing or Two About Loyalty" is PERFECT. I commented with this over on thepodsquad's journal, but last night while trying to distract myself from all this Robin Hood insanity, I decided to take a break from the internet and watch some TV. And in a fit of horrible tragic timing, when I switched on the TV, it was tuned into BBC American and "A Thing or Two About Loyalty" was playing. And... just... I couldn't get away from the crushing irony of it all, both the episode itself and my reaction to it. It's the strongest episode of season one by far, and I love it for all the conflicted loyalties and tentative trusts and misplaced expectations. I thought I loved it even more in light of all the positive progress Guy/Marian made these season, but now being forced to look at it from the perspective of the finale makes me appreciate the way it was played out on a grander level.

Also, thank you for including your thoughts on Marian's reactions during these episodes. I feel like I had such a hard time connecting with her, and even connecting her to herself from earlier episodes -- and I think a lot of what you say makes her actions seem more reasonable. It's a nice relief from hating myself for hating Marian. And then this scene:

That only worsens on Marian’s side when she finds out that Guy did go to the Holy Land to try to kill the king – apparently, she had genuinely believed it for a long, long time when Guy told her that that wasn’t the case back in 1x13.

By this point I was already starting to go into Marian-hate mode for this episode, so it kind of bugged me that she seemed so personally offended by all of this -- like, what, does she feel like Guy owes her something? After the way she's betrayed his trust in every way possible within the first twenty minutes? And for something he did presumably before they had any sort of relationship with or obligation to one another? It struck me as being a very selfish, one-sided approach to their relationship. But, well, going off of what you said... I like that it still reflects some level of instinctive trust which she puts in him, to refuse to believe what I consider to be the one most obvious duhhhh crimes from his past. Also, although I resented much of this episode for making me look back on old Guy/Marian moments and see LIES LIES LIES everywhere, this actually gives me some extra warm fuzzies when I think about their kiss from 1.13. I mean, when she says, "I believe you," it seems like the most false, flat statement ever; and I took her later defense of Guy's word against Robin to be an attempt to forget the things about Guy's past that she couldn't change, whether they were true or not, and hopefully progress to a different future. But, well, the idea that she really truly deep down believed that he never went to the Holy Lands -- I don't think I ever let myself consider that possibility until now. As I learned from Ma after all those years of reading the Little House books, there's no great loss without some small gain, right?

(To be continued in a moment... Character limit and I no longer reside on the same plane of existence.)

[snowystingray.livejournal.com]

And then, my very favourite scene of the whole episode ... It’s the last moment of true connection that I think we ever really see between them, and I think it’s so fitting that it doesn’t involve any words – at this point, everything they say to each other is a manipulation, a lie, a betrayal, an affirmation that their loyalty doesn’t belong to each other and never can. And so, for this little moment, they’re just quiet.

This is also my favourite scene from 2.12, and I lovelovelove what you brought up about them being at a point beyond words. This is probably really cheesy, but I have a whole long playlist of every song that even vaguely reminds me of Guy/Marian, and I've been listening to it quite a lot over the past few days. In the space between 2.11 and the finale, I was attempting to work it into a shareable fanmix rather than a confused jumble of my brain, and I kept coming up with something that seemed too angsty (LOLOLOL at my past self! IF I ONLY KNEW!!!); but one song that I really latched onto was Elvis Costello's Lipstick Vouge (http://www.elviscostello.info/lyrics/tym.html#lipstick_vogue), and now I am just playing this line over in my head: "There are some words that don't allow to be spoken." Because... yes. That is so very much the two of them in this scene.

Armitage, of course, just beautifully shows how devastating this idea is to Guy; it isn’t really menacing, even, just desperate and sad.

I've been playing around with the idea of how Guy would have reacted to Marian's "I love Robin Hood, I love Robin Hood!" broken record if it came early in the episode. Both here and at the very beginning, when he asks her if she has anything else to share with him, I kind of got the weird feeling that... he almost wouldn't have cared. Or, well, wouldn't have impaled her with the nearest pointy object, at any rate. In their opening scene, I felt like he thought that if he could work past her being the Night Watchman, he could work past ANYTHING, and was ready to deal with the possibility of her and Robin. And then, here... I think maybe he just wanted a reason for her betrayal, a way to make sense out of how things had fallen apart between them so quickly. He needs to know what he's been holding onto before he can let it go.

Which makes Marian’s proposal an insult, almost, more than anything. ... there’s nothing behind it, and Guy senses that.

This is how I read the scene as well. The marriage Marian offers him at this point is simply not enough. It might have been back in season one, but I think the brief glimpses of some growing affection for and trust in him (BECAUSE NO MATTER WHAT I WILL NEVER EVER NEVER BE TALKED OUT OF THIS OPINION) gave him a taste of something more to hope for in their relationship; it would now be humiliating and degrading to both of them to settle for less.

she’s not stirred by him, not anymore. I think it’s interesting to contrast this scene with the one in 2x03 – in both of them, she reaches out, offers herself to him, but the 2x03 scene is so characterized by heat and intimacy and desire, and this one’s completely the opposite, with everything sparse and cold.

Oh, goodness. I am so ridiculously obsessed with this type of thing, as I'm sure I have already shared in other flaily comments. The desert surroundings, and then ESPECIALLY the fountain in the background of the stabbing, are both settings resistant to fire; both sand and water are used to smother out flames. The transition from glowing and alive and intimate to cool and stark and monochromatic, is just... guh. Gorgeous. I've spent so much time hating on the writers that I feel I need to take a moment to profess my love for the art department.

(And one more part to come...)

[littledivinity.livejournal.com]

It’s like what he’s done makes her recognize him again, the man instead of the emotionless monster – there’s almost a savage triumph on her face, an “I was right about you all along.”

Okay, I cried.

I still haven't seen the finale, I don't know if I will before it airs in America, and I might be in France when it airs in America...so maybe I'm not meant to see it.

But this does make it seem...digestible. A little bit. Not a lot.

*sighs*

I just want to ignore it entirely. Entirely so.

[herdivineshadow]

I think...that I like thinking of the whole thing as two different series. One where the finale does happen and one where it doesn't.


Where it does happen is incredible tragic and heartbreaking and that's only because of what's happened before. Guy and Marian were always doomed because of the legend, but somehow this is better than the way it might have gone - Robin killing Guy and living happily ever after with Marian would be sort of a "traditional" way; Guy getting killed saving Marian would have been the only kind of happy way it would have ended.

This ending is glorious and heartbreaking tragedy in a kind of Romeo and Juliet vein. Interestingly, Marian and Juliet share some of the same kind of strengths - they're both pretty decisive young women and are stronger than the men in the story plus to an extent both are stuck in a particular position in society that is very difficult for them to move away from.

Guy shares a certain indecisiveness with Romeo and another shared weakness is a tendency to act with blind passion - Guy kills Marian, Romeo kills Tybalt.

And again... there's another parallel in that if circumstances had been slightly different? It could have worked out. If Marian hadn't tried to kill the Sheriff, yeah they would still have been doomed and Guy would have killed the King but they'd both be alive. If Romeo took up Tybalt's challenge, well. He would probably be dead. But everyone else (Juliet, Mercutio, Tybalt, Romeo's mother, Paris...) would still be alive. Or if he hadn't interfere with the fight between Tybalt and Mercutio, then maybe it would have been Tybalt that died or someone could have come along in a better position to stop the fight.


But I do like my Robin/Marian shipping to have the same kind of R&J tragedy levels, so in my favourite stories of them either Robin dies, Marian dies or everyone dies.


Yeah. I know. It's weird.


BUT THEN, if you take the series without this finale? It's still this wonderful story about the growth of the whole relationship between Guy and Marian and Guy revealing the depths he would go to for Marian and Marian sticking to her guns and not taking the easy way out for them.

[mybrookie.livejournal.com]

The man he’s become throughout the course of this episode – the one who’s cold and methodical, who follows the Sheriff’s orders and cares for nothing except for gaining power and dismisses humanity as weakness – is gone, and here, instead, is Guy, and he’s horrified and he’s sorry and he loves her.

You captured the heart and intensity of that moment exactly.

-Long live G/M

[maddeinin.livejournal.com]

Hi, are you me?

OK, so I never actually shipped Marian/Guy as such (just Guy/Marian, if that makes sense), but this is pretty much totally how it unfolded for me. The second time I saw it. The first time I hated it, because for whatever reason I totally blanked on Marian giving Guy her word not to cause trouble, and jesus, his face when he realizes she promised and then went right on to do it anyway. That's where it ends for him and it makes the rest of, well, everything make beautiful, terrible sense. Augh.

And well, I still have a problem with Marian's last stand - I just desperately want her to be, I don't know, her cunning self, or at least have a weapon of some sort. But that's probably just because I don't care what happens other than her being NOT DEAD, THANK YOU.

Which is why, when season three opens with Robin and his men still tied up in the desert and Marian coming to rescue them, having kicked the sheriff in the teeth, something something (save Robin Hood, save the King, save England in a less horrible way), I will forgive the writers for putting me through this.

Maybe.

(Shut up. I'm going to cling to this until proven wrong. I cannot, seriously-for-real, even conceive of a third season without her. Can you imagine the angst? Everyone except the Sheriff is going to be suicidal. It would be unbearable. And a ghost is not going to cut it for me.)

[(Anonymous)]

Great commentary!
I enjoyed your insights. Very helpful.
Just one thing to add-
I think at the end, when Marian is repeating that she loves Robin over and over again, she is saying it as a new realization. If you watch her eyes, you can see it as if the knowledge is slowly dawning on her.

Before, she had had feelings for Guy and so her heart was conflicted. Finally, because of what he has done, because of where he had left her and what he is about to do, she can say that she loves Robin and MEAN IT completely. Her heart is no longer torn.
Guy, by acting as he has, had indeed made himself irredeemable in her eyes. From her perspective, this has effectively severed their relationship.
And so at last she is made free.
Free to love Robin completely.
And it is this joy you see in her- it is why she laughs. No to goad Guy but because she is finally free.
Of him. Of his hold on her.
Hope that makes sense.

[dollsome.livejournal.com]

Oh man, thank you, THAT IS SO FRIGGIN' AMAZING AND SPOT ON. I still had the feeling that there was something I was missing from the way Lucy acted that moment -- it felt like there was something going on behind her words that I couldn't quite sort out all the way in order to comprehend -- and man . . . that is it, exactly.

[fondued-jicama.livejournal.com]

I know she was stabbed, but she's Maid Marian. Killing her off makes absolutely no sense. I wonder what the hell they think they are doing, and what is going to happen next season. oO:

[everybody--lies.livejournal.com]

Thank you so much for this. I finally watched it today (I literally had to wait 2 days before I was 'ready') and this helped me a lot. I love how you see it all, I went into it with your opinons in mind (lol, yes I looked through it beforehand. And I'm glad I did).

And I agree that G/M can't be brought down-- not even by that very tragic ending.

[rainbowstevie.livejournal.com]

I don't know how I missed this post the first time around, but it's AMAZING and going in my Memories right now. This is like unwrapping a a late Christmas present. I think I'll have to savor it in sections, actually; it's much too much to take in all at once.

[thelilalbatross.livejournal.com]

You, my dear, are amazing. And oh-so right.

Thank you SO MUCH for writing this. You've managed to make it all seem OK in my head. I'm still upset that she's dead, but all the OOCness and reverting to a S1 relationship... it all makes a tragic sort of sense this way. And I need it to make sense, so thank you.

[herdivineshadow]

I ♥ you. So much. I mean, I've been dealing pretty well with the whole ZOMG of it all because I have a fondness for epic fail and tragedy and heartbreak for the most part, but this has really helped where Marian is concerned to put her actions into context. I ♥ you.


I still have trouble making sense of his declaration that he’ll take her by force.

I think some part of Guy here, and again later on in The Scene, still clings to the hope that what he is doing is for the best, that Marian will come to understand why he's done all these things and that in time they could have a good future together. Because I think, Guy is prepared to wait however long it takes for Marian - he's waited long enough and endured enough rejection from her that to wait and endure some more is something he could do.

The difference between the scene with the Sheriff and The Scene is, I think, that here Guy believes in the idea that they could be happy one day more. He's not seen Marian running to help Robin yet (which kills things for them a tiny bit more - kills the dream and helps to cement the doubts he already had about Marian and Robin).

Later on, Guy desperately clings to the hope that once he does this, once he gains position and power to be able to properly provide for a family, that there is still a chance for him and Marian to be happy together. He's trying to convince himself here, I think, as well as trying to explain to her - as if saying it will make it come true somehow. Really, he's already lost everything he had with her because she believes now that he cannot be saved at all and he probably knows deep down that they will never be together. He just doesn't accept it then. He still doesn't really accept it when she says she would rather die than be with him and loves and will marry Robin. And I suspect he doesn't accept it even after he's stabbed her, but by then it doesn't matter - he's destroyed her and any tiny microscopic potential hope they could ever have had.


Thinking about it now, it mirrors the scene when he finds out she's the nightwatchman a bit. Only then, he had time to process it all and it wasn't quite as devastating a revelation. This time, he acts without thinking.

[herdivineshadow]

Oh. And completely separate to ANY kind of analysis or story or ANYTHING?


You've just reminded me again how UTTERLY BEAUTIFUL Armitage and Lucy are throughout the whole thing.

[bishwop.livejournal.com]

WOW. This is amazing and I completely applaud you for having done it because it must have been quite (a lot?) painful. But this was EXACTLY what I, for one, needed and by the looks of the other comments you've helped a lot of other people too. I think I've properly come to terms with it now. Analysis always helps make sense of things. I loooove it. I still need to do my own big analysis post of the finale, and I've written most of it but I keep trying to order stuff into neat little categories like you said and it's proving difficult.

It’s essentially one big “screw you” to Guy’s scheme to protect her from being found out as the Nightwatchman – after the huge sacrifice he made for her, she just goes and sets herself up to get killed by the Sheriff all over again, like Guy’s actions meant nothing to her.
You're so right and I never thought of that before.

*bows to you*

[grumpygrim.livejournal.com]

Amazing analysis! It's absolutely spot on, everything you said makes sense and fits perfectly.

Here's hoping the ship never dies :)

[counteragent.livejournal.com]

Hiya! I just want to say--and I swear this is NOT sarcastic--that I'm really proud of you for integrating this ending into your worldview so quickly. I unerstand that you still don't LIKE it, but you've come to make sense of it, and that's huge.

I have to be honest--I've only _just recently_ begun to accept the way Irina turned out. And I'm only to the point of "I need to make a vid to explain this" kind of way. I guess I'm still at the beginning of my process.

Heh. Geez. That all sounds super melodramatic, but I think you'll understand. :)

[electricpeppers.livejournal.com]

This is an excellent analysis, which I added to my memories! I actually rather morbidly liked that their story ended this way. I always respect narratives that end tragically or with a hint of gloom, said usually have a certain way about them, and consequently are more affecting even years later. I was deliberating whether or not to buy the Robin Hood series 1 & 2 DVDs, after the finale I can safely say I will buy them without hesitation!

I loved the inherent irony that the one thing Guy truly loved and believed could save him, would be the one thing that sent him on the road to total self-destruction.

[lalumena.livejournal.com]

Thank you so much for this. This was such an cogent and intelligent analysis to read. I'm crossing my fingers for Marian to return, hoping for events to have been a dream or hallucination. On one level I wish Guy could have been 'saved' by her, as cheesy/idealistic as that might sound.
But what you've said, the way you've explained it, renders their journey as complex and graduated and that at least is some consolation.

[solitude-82.livejournal.com]

THANK YOU NITA! I truly never broke down the last two episodes and thought of them that way because I just didn't even want to go near them again after what happened. But everything you said makes total sense and doesn't make me feel like they just threw away every bit of development. I'm still not happy at all with how things went down but this makes me feel a tiny bit better and not quite so angry at the world. I'll never stop shipping Guy/Marian because he killed her. To me, they were far more interesting than Robin/Marian and that's what I look for in ships. If you don't interest me, I don't ship you.

[guyxmarianluv.livejournal.com]

"I'll never stop shipping Guy/Marian"

Yeah, I love them more than ever!!

[marketchippie.livejournal.com]

oh my gosh...thanks so much for this! for one thing, it's just dead-on. and it sounds weird, but I don't know...it just makes it a little more bearable when it's explained, laid out like this. that it makes some sort of tragic, awful, dramatic-irony-spilling-out-the-sides sense (a defined sense of tragedy, yes - that's it). analysis makes it a little less soul-crushing.

just a little.

and ohh, the acting, ESPECIALLY in the last scene, just kills me. lucy and armitage are really too wonderful for words.

[guyxmarianluv.livejournal.com]

Oh, my... I LOVED IT.. thank you very muck! But... I still don't accept what happened. I just can't. And I will never be able to do this.

I prefer to live in denial.... Guy NEVER did that... and Marian is still ALIVE.

Why, writers, why?? They ruined the most beautiful ship.... they ruined the show. I will never understand this.

And I will love Guy&Marian FOREVER. The most GORGEOUS ship I've ever seen!

[maybethistime.livejournal.com]

I still have trouble making sense of his declaration that he’ll take her by force.

I seem to have taken this much differently than everyone else, lol. The Sheriff hasn't made any bones about wanting to disrupt whatever schmoopy emotions Guy seems to have for Marian... mostly because the relationship that he and Guy have built relies on Guy putting him above everyone else and Guy's feelings towards Marian put that in jeopardy. Guy knows that. He also knows the Sheriff's tendency to, you know, kill people. I saw him telling the Sheriff that he'd take Marian by force as the only way he could think of to get the Sheriff to once again spare Marian's life.... and he wouldn't feel threatened because it would appear as if Guy no longer had the schmoopies for her. And bonus, he'd finally be able to protect her the way he's wanted to, and surely she'd be grateful that he saved her life, despite everything.

But maybe that's just me. :p

[dollsome.livejournal.com]

Oh! Ohh!! That's good, that makes a lot more sense than anything else I've tried to figure out about that line has. Thank you!

[fireflyfailure.livejournal.com]

Many, many, many thanks for writing this--and doing such a beautiful job as well.

[boy-named-susie.livejournal.com]

Fantastic analysis. Thanks for making some sense of something that felt so senseless and insane to me when I finally watched this yesterday. And still feels absolutely insane.

[noblealice.livejournal.com]

This is a really good meta that explains a lot. Thinking of it like this allows me to half heartedly believe that the writers didn't assassinate Guy's character and that they had some reason behind what they did. I'm totally accepting this into my personal canon!